Setting Short, Medium And Long Term Objectives:

Political Factors, Strategies, Objectives & Goals,
Measurement, Review & Revision.


Facilitator:      Peter Douglas, Chairman, Ruapuha-Uekaha Hapu Trust


Panellists:       Donna Awatere Huata, ACT List MP

Derek Fox, Mayor of Wairoa District

Willie Jackson MP, Leader, Mana Motuhake Party

Hon. Sandra Lee MP, Deputy Leader of Alliance

Nanaia Mahuta MP, Te Tai Hauauru

Hon. Georgina Te Heuheu, National List MP

Rt. Hon. Winston Peters MP, Leader NZ First

Jacqui Amohanga, Candidate, Mana Maori Party




Peter Douglas            Donna Awatere is the first panel member to speak, she has been a list MP since 1996, she is a successful businesswoman, a psychologist, and a reading teacher and a strong advocate for reading. When I was thinking about something pithy to say before she started I came up with this ‘Men of power have no time to read, yet men who do not read are unfit for power’ Donna is from Te Arawa.




Donna Awatere Huata, ACT List  MP


Kia ora tatou – everyone. Years ago, it was 1970, I attended a Young Maori Leaders’ Conference at Auckland University and we had two of the most dynamic speakers I have ever had the privilege to listen to in my life, one was Tom Te Maro and the other was Ngoi Pewhairangi, Aunty Ngoi said two things that stuck with me, ‘not a single acre more’ and the second was ‘hold fast to our Maori language’. From that conference grew Nga Tama Toa, which was the young warriors group who waged war in the 1970s with all of the negative and hostile influences that our people had been subject to. We were part of a fresh wave, but at the end of the day I don’t believe in a big bang theory of Maori development, we were only one of many waves that went on right through the 1800s and the 1900s right through to the post war period until 1970. I see this hui today as exactly that, just part of that wave in which one generation of people who have moved things forward hands on that torch to the next.


I came to parliament in a serendipitous way; I took six months off to have one of my babies. I have seven, and after six I was worn out. The chairman of my local school board of trustees came and said Donna we have got a fabulous principal arriving in six months time any chance that you will baby-sit our school until then? Well I thought why not. It’s a great school she said, 52 teachers. I went there in order to make myself useful. The new principal had all the children tested for reading, maths and science and discovered that we were in the bottom 2-5% in the country. Now the tests have a margin of error of 5% so we could actually have been the worst performing school in the country. Eighty five per cent of the role was Maori most of their families on a benefit and I came to politics simply because in my efforts to lift the standards of that school, I got sacked as the principal. They said I caused too much trouble. I actually sacked nine teachers because they were so bad and the fight that I had with the union made me so distraught I went to see the Minister of Education whom I didn’t know. Lockwood Smith, he just smiled at me and I thought he was mocking me but actually that is just how his face was like he had a congenital disease. No, true I have since told Lockwood this, I said ‘Lockwood if you had taken me seriously I would still be doing business and probably relocated my family to Aussie by now, but because I thought you mocked me for my concern at the failure of the school that was basically turning out little Maori burglars and children who could not read and write I decided if I want to change my local school I will have to become Minister of Education’.


Now I just have to say to all you young people out there I am into achievement values, I really am. If I can get myself elected to Parliament, the Darth Vader of Maori radical politics, (I have been arrested eighteen times, had two lags in prison) if I can reposition myself to get a mainly Pakeha party to vote me number three on their list, honey you can do anything.


Well the sad fact is that 70% of Maori unemployed can’t read. 70% of Maori unemployed can’t read, that is the fact of the matter. What is so sad is there is no reason why they shouldn’t read, if only we weren’t so religious about teaching in a particular way. Our children need certain skills that we are not preparing our teachers with, that whole toolbox of skills and I guess I haven’t got any big bang or bold theory or vision for Maoridom, all I want is for every child to be able to read and write by the age of nine. Kia ora



Peter Douglas              Our next speaker is Derek Fox, Derek is from Ngati Kahungunu and he is the mayor of Wairoa. Derek’s first lobbying post was as President of the New Zealand Federation of Maori Students (Te Huinga Rangatahi) when he was still an undergraduate at university. He has been a long time broadcaster, a journalist and commentator on radio and television and in the print media. He is the leader of the recently formed Maori Party




Derek Fox, Mayor of Wairoa District


Kia ora tatou. I have to correct Peter [Douglas], and Donna [Awatere] wants me to correct him as well, Donna is of course from Ngati Porou and Te Arawa, those are her connections and she doesn’t want here iwi there to feel left out and I don’t want Ngati Porou to feel left out either I am from Porou and Kahungunu, except that I happen to live where I was born, which is at Mahia.


One of the wonderful things about hui like this, in fact the scary thing is that when someone approached you about it some months ago it seemed like quite a good idea, but then when you turn up you are instantly traumatised looking out at all of you who are sitting here. I want to congratulate the organisers because there was a time when I figured I knew every Maori in the country and then you fellas came along. So I am finding that we do have some enormous strengths, and I have actually said to the organisers what they should do is chuck all us old buggers out, close the door and let you fellas get on with it but they haven’t been game enough to do that. 


You know the first of these hui for young Maori leaders was held in 1939 and the man who promoted it and got it going was a fellow called Apirana Ngata, he happened to come from Ngati Porou but that wasn’t necessarily the reason he promoted it. Apirana Ngata got involved in politics and he established a group called the Young Maori Party which was made up of people like himself, Sir Peter Buck, Sir Maui Pomare, they weren’t Sirs at that time, that happened later. They took the initiative; they stood on their own feet in their own right as Maori and went into the New Zealand parliament. And that is what I am trying to promote again today. Politics is important to us, greatly important because all of the resources that we need for our people and for the betterment of this country are ultimately funnelled through the New Zealand parliament, or at least access to them is and so we need to be represented there.


My approach is slightly different to the approach that has been taken by the rest of my colleagues, all of whom I know very well, all are personal friends and so there is no animosity or any of that sort of thing, but my approach is different. I believe that we need to stand on our own feet, its not a process of attacking other people and attacking this party or attacking that party it is just a process of standing on our own feet and asserting our own mana in the parliament and that is nothing more or less than we are promoting through this idea of forming a Maori Party to contest the next election.


At the next election there will be seven seats, that is the same number of members the Green Party has got and so there is an opportunity for the brown’s to have seven seats. At the last election there were 160 thousand of us on the Maori Roll there were about 145 thousand (maybe a few more) on the Pakeha Roll. There were somewhere between fifty and eighty thousand of us not on any roll. Now these are not people hiding out on the Mahia Peninsula or in Urewera or up in Tai Tokerau, these are our own whanaunga, they are our cousins our uncles our aunties even some of our kaumatua, they are not on any roll. If we were to get all those people the 160 thousand 145 thousand and the 80 thousand on one roll onto the Maori roll we wouldn’t be talking about seven seats, we would be talking about between 16 and 20 seats; if we got all of those people to vote by the time you take people off the lists, we would have about 30 members of parliament. Not all thinking the same way, that’s impossible, but at least all in one house and working hopefully in some accord.


That is the dream I want to leave with you. I believe we need to stand on our own feet politically, I don’t believe we should be hanging on to someone else’s panekoti or anything else. I think we need to stand on our own feet politically and I don’t see this as a threat to other parties, it actually helps them because the Labour Party at the last election, very successfully, campaigned on a policy of closing the gaps. When it got into power it had to back-pedal on that because its own Pakeha members when they went home for the weekend, they were told in no uncertain terms by their constituents ‘you can’t do that’. I believe if we have a Maori Party holding a balance of power in parliament it would be easier for those parties because they would need our vote and they would work accordingly. That’s awfully simplistic but that is what I want to leave with you, the idea of standing on our own feet politically. 

Kia ora tatou katoa.



Peter Douglas              Thank you Derek, sorry about the confusion, our next speaker will be Willie Jackson from Ngati Maniapoto and Ngati Kahungunu. He is a list MP for the Alliance and he is the leader of Mana Motuhake Party. Before he was in parliament he was a music producer, radio broadcaster and a union delegate




Willie Jackson, Leader, Mana Motuhake Party


What an opportunity, speaking after Derek Fox! Kia ora tatou, tatou i huihui mai nei, i haere mai nei mo tenei kaupapa ataahua i tenei ra. He honore maku ki te korero ki a koutou i tenei ra. A, tena tatou aku hoa kua tae mai nei ki te tautoko te kaupapa nei. Tena koutou, tena tatou, kia ora.


Yes it is an opportunity to speak after Derek, a wonderful friend and long time broadcasting colleague, and I think he has got a very good message and something for us all to digest about Maori standing on their own feet. So over the next year or so, we are going to have to make some decisions about what are we going to do. Are we going to go with Derek and the Maori Party or are we going to stay with Labour or come with the Maori party already represented in government? I think he makes the point, I believe a lot of people get confused sometimes about hanging onto the coat tails of another party. It is my belief in terms of Mana Motuhake that you can actually get some traction within the system. But don’t kid yourselves, once you come into the system, deals have to be done, negotiations have to happen, compromise has to occur whether you are a green party or a brown party or an orange party, it doesn’t matter. So talk of tino rangatiratanga I think needs to be put to the side. If you want to talk tino rangatiratanga I have got a couple of radical uncles, Moana Jackson and Sid Jackson who express tino rangatiratanga in its truest sense because they are just not involved with anything in main stream. So we have to make a decision as Maori how do we best get traction, with a Maori party outside the system or a Maori party within the system, or of course with the existing vehicle which is Labour?

You know coming to these type of hui I am always excited and interested in the types of people who come along and I heard it was a rangatahi hui but gee I’m sure when I walked in I saw a couple of mates who are five or six years older than me. And I start wondering about this rangatahi tag and when does it stop. In Maoridom, sometimes I think it goes on forever and I look around and I can’t see too many young ones here, but I think it is great we come together but you have got to question Maoridom ‘when does it end?’ because sometimes we are rangatahi until we are sixty and then we die, so the rangatahi tag can go on for ever and a day and I think it is interesting when we look at Maoridom from that perspective.


I was looking at Tariana Turia’s speech from yesterday and her view of what leadership was and what leadership is. I thought it was an excellent speech.  I don’t know what other delegates here think because for too long mainstream media have defined what we believe is leadership or what you perceive is leadership. The mainstream media is very persuasive. Mainstream media would have you believe that we politicians are the real leaders of Maoridom because we are all they focus upon. For them there is no mileage in focussing on the unsung heroes of Maoridom.


If I am to leave you with a message today, I want people to think about some of those unsung heroes who are doing their bit for Maoridom out there who are not on the television or on the Holmes show or on the news breaks, but who are out there working with the iwi. I’m thinking of people like Whata Winiata of Ngati Raukawa, look up the East coast to Koro Dewes and Api Mahuika and down in the South Island in Ngai Tahu to the rangatira down there, Bill Solomon, who died recently. In the kohanga reo movement we have Iri Tawhiwhirangi and in the judicial area we have Eddie Durie and Joe Williams, all unsung heroes of Maoridom who might not be your sexiest leaders, who might not be wearing the flash suits like my mate Winston [Peters] over here, who don’t have his wonderful smile, and who don’t capture your everyday imagination, but people who are working at a grass roots level. They don’t care about the media and we must always think about them and attempt to emulate them because they are leaders also. I don’t accept that political people are not leaders, we are, we have to accept that in many ways, and fulfil our obligations, but for us to develop in Maoridom we need to think about leadership in a much broader sense, so that Maori development can be enhanced. We must celebrate those people and not accept how mainstream defines our leadership.


In finishing off I just want to leave a little message in terms of strategies because I believe the kaupapa was something about strategies. We all go off the kaupapa being this type of hui (I don’t think I’ve been to a Maori hui where anyone stayed on the kaupapa), but anyway I think the question was ‘strategies for Maoridom’ and when we think about ‘what we want to do and where we want to go and what we want to achieve’, we need to sort of map it all out and then think about the constraints so if you want to get to parliament if you want to achieve something, for me I want Mana Motuhake to be the Maori voice, the Maori option for our people. But what are the constraints for us in Mana Motuhake? Well obviously, we have got six Maori Labour M.Ps who are a constraint. They will obviously be an obstacle because they are the incumbents, we also have the criticism that Mana Motuhake is in the Alliance, and we are being dictated to by Pakeha so I have to work out either do we  remove the obstacles and try to get rid of Nanaia [Mahuta] and all her mates or do you pull away from the Alliance, or try and work with what we have got in front of us.


My strategy is to work alongside those people and try to get output for our people.  I suppose for you as individuals you have to come up with that same type of strategy too in terms of wanting to achieve what you want to get in the end, which may be a Maori leadership position or pushing your kaupapa out there. So when drawing up your strategy I think you have to think out a constraints-type strategy and then work from there. I will leave you with that message, thank you very much, kia ora ano tatou.



Peter Douglas              Our next speaker will be the Honourable Sandra Lee, Sandra is from Poutini Ngai Tahu and she won the Auckland Central seat in 1993, she is the Deputy Leader of The Alliance and she is the Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Local Government, she is also the Associate Minister of Maori Affairs. Sandra is a very passionate speaker and a poet. Samuel Coleridge said, ‘What comes from the heart goes to the heart’




The Hon. Sandra Lee, Deputy Leader of Alliance, Minister of Conservation, Minister of Local Government, Associate Minister of Maori Affairs


Kia ora koutou. First of all can I say the women on the panel disagree with Willie Jackson to the extent that we want you to feel free to consistently refer to us as rangatahi, we like it.


I first entered politics in the early 1980’s, I stood for the Waiheke County Council because the blokes from that Council were irritating me, and accidentally got elected. Back then the main things that county councillors on Waiheke Island did was look after our five public toilets and our fifty stray dogs. Now I am the Minister of Conservation I am in charge of 15,000 public toilets and zillions of possums. Who says things don’t change in politics?


Can I open by saying that I wanted to raise the issue of an article in the newspaper when we talk about young Maori leadership and leadership in general that particularly irritated me last week. It was written by Bob Jones. Now Bob Jones’s articles are designed to irritate Maori in particular, usually when we are sitting on a plane. We shouldn’t take too much notice of them except to say that when major daily newspapers give the sort of prominence to these kinds of articles, now and again, when I have a captive audience and you’re it, I get a chance to have a whack, and that is what I am going to do. He has called it Gagging on the Cultural Diet. He wouldn’t know culture if he fell over it, much less consumed it, but nonetheless we will go on.  He asked,


‘Are politicians such insensitive brutes, to be unaware of the enormous harm being doing by the absurd ramming things Maori down everyone’s throats?’ (Yes he said that about us. He went on to say) ‘a foreign president arrives and some garrulous bore bellows and postures for twenty minutes at the airport in a language unintelligible to the guest and everyone else. Nowhere in the world is such embarrassing nonsense practiced. The whole business is out of hand. Every government department reproduces a line in Maori and therefore meaningless to most under its signage or its stationery. Why not be more reflective of our society and represent other groupings’ he says ‘homosexuals claim to almost have the same population percentages of Maori. Let’s represent them with a government department I can think of none better than Foreign Affairs their stationary could substitute the Maori line with the simple message ‘Up your Bum’ you wouldn’t really mind would you?


Except it is 2001. We all crave those kinds of headlines in the middle of the Dominion on a Saturday morning but have more difficulty getting them perhaps because we are not multi millionaires, or not that I know of. So what is the difference? Well there is a huge difference, and I think of an example when my own youngest daughter Kahurangi was at Auckland Girls' Grammar where we had a large number of the students. Sorry Precious (she hates it when I bring this up and I know she is here). A hui was called by Arapera Kaa Blank, that great educator. The principal of the school was there also, parents such as others and me beseeched our daughters to attend regularly, consume their peanut butter sandwiches and enter and win the Korimako speeches. The then principal said


‘Well my son is Australian, but really this emphasis on School Certificate fascinates me. I simply do not think,’ (she said), ‘as an Australian that the future of the Australian people depends on my son passing School Certificate’. 


Arapera Kaa Blank said


‘Ah but that’s the difference Maureen, you see the future of the Maori people does depend on all these young Maori women not just passing School Certificate but getting a very good tertiary education in order to advance the interests of our people’.


What are we up against in that regard in the year 2001? A great deal, when you can hurtle billions of dollars around the world in twelve seconds in the middle of the night. When you have an imperative worldwide that is described as a global economy, you have to accept as young Maori living in this new century, that things have changed radically even from the days of the 1960s and 1970s when organisations such as Nga Tamatoa were challenging the impact of previous colonisation on these islands of ours. What should we do? What should inform the decisions that we make about it? Well first of all we have to accept that we are unique and small in the scheme of things globally. If you stand in Oxford Street in London on any day and watch the people pass by you will be aware of that.


What should inform us? That which makes us unique and strong and therefore a recognition of our traditional social structures whanau, hapu and iwi are crucial, and need to be sustained. Alongside that there also has to be access to real and relevant education. Nobody knows that better than me, I’m the original high school drop out. When I went to school in the 1960s and 1970s I was taught about crofting in the Orkneys, I was never ever going to go crofting in the Orkneys but it seemed incredibly important to my teachers that I know how to do it just in case. We learned a lot about Europe since Napoleon. He was an interesting character indeed, but we learnt nothing about our places, about Polynesian people here in the Pacific. Relevant and real has to be the catch cry for education. We need an economic basis for our people but not for the few at the expense of the many. The litmus test must not be how many of us break the glass ceiling? Who is the first one on a board? Who is the first lawyer? Who is the first planner? But rather how well collectively we are doing as a race here in the South Pacific. That should be the litmus test on whether or not our people are advancing and developing, and we must also have a principle based on the common good for all of our people rather than the advantage of the few and I cannot emphasise that too much.


What will that require? For your generation, like my generation, and every generation that has gone before fundamentally it has to require a constitutional readjustment in New Zealand society and comments such as this are the reason why. an absence of grace, appreciation and understanding of the otherness, and even of the fundamental compact that is the Treaty of Waitangi cannot be acceptable. What sort of constitutional readjustment therefore should be required? Well everyday in parliament, those of us who are Maori see litigated and re-litigated issues about whether the Treaty should be in this Bill, whether is shouldn’t be in that Bill whether there are provision for Maori representation whether there shouldn’t be. This is first level argument, which has been litigated for generations of Maori. Constitutional readjustment must engage our absolute right as a treaty partner in the governance of our country at all levels. There has been some discussion about whether or not we should abolish ties with the Privy Council, the Hon. Winston Peters points out, and quite rightly I believe, that New Zealand can be politically a very small and incestuous country, judges know everybody else and people marry them and so on and so forth, don’t ask me why.


The truth of the matter is that some of the greatest constitutional legal remedies that Maori have had historically have been derived as a result of us being able to go externally to organisations such as the Privy Council, our relation fundamentally is with the Crown in terms of the Treaty and the Privy Council is the body that has always informed the Crown. Rather than arguing ad nauseum whether the Treaty should be included in every Bill providing the opposition with a free lunch to hit Maori every time parliament sits, why cant we have the Treaty enshrined in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? I challenge anybody in this country who says that contract and compact is not a right, it is our fundamental right to be who we are, and that is why our wiley and wise old tupuna insisted that it be created and agreed to sign up to it.


We have to have a vision of society that is intact, such a vision will not be what’s reflected on the front pages of newspapers when our young people are torn apart in whatever form, while the media look at it like voyeurs. We can’t walk away from the fact that fundamentally these protections are our responsibility and we must not shirk them no matter how difficult. As young leaders we have to see you accept that the road is going to be incredibly hard but there can be no room for bitterness or cynicism as was pointed out earlier. To quote Matiu Rata


‘If you think on your journey through leadership for our people the road will be hard you can rest assured that it is ten times harder for the rest of our people out there’.


In conclusion I would like to end with the words of a German philosopher called Bertolt Brecht whom I respect very much because I think it says a lot about where we are. I saw recently that the predictions are that of the 6,000 languages on earth 3,000 will become extinct this century, at the very least let’s ensure that our language, our culture, our islands, our customs will not form part of that global catastrophe.   In conclusion  ‘so that is all, but it is not enough. But it will serve to remind you that we are still here’, it is like the man who carried the brick with him to show the world what his house was like. Kia ora.



Peter Douglas              Thank you Sandra, our next speaker is Nanaia Mahuta who is from Waikato and Nga Puhi She is the member for Te Tai Hauauru and she has been an MP since 1996. Before that she was an academic librarian. Nanaia and I were talking before hand and I was reminded of what the Prime Minister said last night. ‘Without a target you will never miss. Without an aim you will always score but without a target it won’t matter’,




Nanaia Mahuta M.P., Labour, Te Tai Hauauru


Tena tatou. Kua tau nga mihi kei runga i a koutou, no reira tenei te mihi atu ki o koutou, ki o tatou nei tini mate o ia marae o ia marae, haere atu ra, whakangaro atu ki a ratou i tiaki i o koutou nei karanga. Ki te hau kainga, Ngati Toa, Te Atiawa, tena koutou. Ki a tatou katoa, nga toa rangapu o te whare paremata, tena koutou, tena koutou katoa. Mai rano, mai rano ko nga patai i puta mai kei waenganui i o tatou nei matua tupuna, i ahu mai i whea? Kei whea tatou inaianei? E ahu ana tatou ki whea? Mai rano, mai rano, ko nga wananga i wanangatia e ratou, nga ahuatanga i whakapakari i te oranga o tatou nei iwi kei runga i te mata o te whenua. Na ratou ano i whakato nga korero hei tohu ki a tatou


‘E kore au i ngaro, na te mea, he kakano i ruia mai i a Rangiatea’.


I raro i tera tohu ki a tatou katoa nga whakatupuranga ka haramai nei ki te tautoko tenei kaupapa i tenei ra.


Thank you for the opportunity to speak, I suppose I’m a bit like everybody else, when you get asked a few months earlier to come to a conference like this you are all eager and suddenly it dawns upon you that the conference is today and you have to shoot some light about some of the issues facing our people. As I said they are not new issues. Each generation has asked itself where have we come from? Where are we now? And where are we going? So it is not a new phenomenon that today we are here to discuss leadership. I don’t want to muse too much on the subject because you have had a lot of speakers talk about leadership qualities and what it takes. Well here you have a row full of people who have to some extent been there and done that and now we have a new generation coming through, saying ‘well how can we be a part of determining where we are going to go to from here?’ That is what I want to talk about.


There were some issues that were outlined for us to speak on: short, medium and long-term objectives. I want to dance around all of them and maybe you will ask some questions later, but I do think it is time for us all to revisit the touchstones of where we are now and in doing that we do have to look at where we have come from and look at building upon lots of the development models that have taken place and got us to where we are now.


We all have to ask ourselves are we on the right track? When I listen to what Peter [Douglas] was saying I was reminded that one of the race relations conciliators said that ‘if you are going nowhere then any road is going to get you there’ I don’t believe that is going to be the case for Maori because we have got places to go, things to do and we are all going to be a part of that. So will any track do? I don’t think so.


But what do we need to do to make sure that we are all on the same track or at least on the same waka, paddling in the same direction to the same objective?  I think it is about time now that we have a major touchstone as Maori people, to say what are going to be our objectives for the next twenty to thirty years, because leadership in 2020 is going to look totally different to what you have here. Leadership in 2020 for Maori will mean that we Maori are going to be key stakeholders in the development of this nation. Leadership 2020 will mean that the types of skills that are going to come through will be grown from the community and will largely contribute to the wellbeing of a wider conception of who we are as people. I think leadership 2020, if I was to look back from that point or had a number of givens not assumptions, the givens will be that we will be multi-lingual as people, Maori, the givens will be that we won’t have to have continuous arguments justifying who we are and what it means to be Maori or what it is to have a Treaty clause in legislation, the givens will be that we will not stand any longer someone else determining the type of development that is appropriate for us. We will be key stakeholders in development. So that sets us all a number of challenges.


I know that the people attending this conference are involved in many areas of social and community development and let me say that probably looking around over my few years in parliament there are going to be some key drivers for development that are going to impact on us as a people.


In the area of health the whole issue of medical research and how we contribute to that is going to have a big impact on us. Environmental issues; we have just had the Royal Commission’s report out on Genetic Modification, but the whole question of sustainability, biotechnology and research is also going to impact on us as Maori on our beliefs, customs and views of how things should be.


Issues concerning the Treaty. Sandra [Lee] largely touched on them when talking on constitutional issues, but I will actually challenge how we will, as a nation, develop a new sense of nationhood and constitutional reform. Now we talk and talk about it but the reality of it is nearer than we think. We need to be actively engaged in that and I note that some of the workshops actually discuss this very topic. But the whole question of property rights and collective property rights and how we reflect that in legislation is something we need to put our minds to now.


In the area of democracy and having democratic principles infused through tribal organisations or Maori organisations, iwi etc that is something we are going to have to grapple with, as yet we don’t really have a framework that aligns to us as Maori which will enable us to develop and hold onto those things that are Maori, nor a framework, whether it be a legislative framework or an organisational structure, to try and merge some of those things together. That too is a challenge for us.


Also there are issues of participation. I think in 2020 the whole level at which we participate will be a given. We will be there on our school boards of trustees, our local government or regional government and in central government. It won’t be a question of getting the numbers of Maori up, it will be making that participation effective and giving some tangible shape to the development objectives of our people in the whole area of the knowledge economy. Now this is something we have all been involved with in our various organisations because we know that the future direction for this country and our communities is to ensure that we have highly skilled and trained people. Donna [Awatere-Huata] highlighted literacy, yes that is a concern, but that is not one organisation’s sole responsibility it is for all of us. And in terms of making development sustainable, real and proactive, we have to grapple with issues such as literacy, more than that, to invest in the skill base of our people in a proactive and managed way.


So those are some of the things that I think are going to impact on us and that we need to look at. Deciding what is important: we are here because we have survived a number of changes over many years but we are here as a testament and legacy to our ancestors who said we have an inherent connection to these lands. So what does that mean? We have got to look at what is good, what we actually want to hold onto, and how we are actually going to take it forward into a new generation with new challenges and new struggles. It is about our language and tikanga; it is about infusing what it means to be tangata whenua connected to the land. But the issue of connectedness also has to do with how we as stakeholders in development become a part of an inclusive economy. So what does that mean? It means that we have a new economic determinant here that is not going to go away.  How do we, as Maori, interface our own values about what it is to be socially responsible? We will continue to need to invest back into the whanau, to invest back into our communities so that we are not going to have separate objectives but joint, shared objectives that include economic development, social development, environmental responsibility and cultural integrity, that is what it is about.


So if we were to get back to basics, and I think that is all it is, if we talk too much about leadership, people talk about leadership for two main of reasons, one is if you need it to take you somewhere, because I believe ultimately leadership is functional. The other reason you talk about leadership is because current leaders are not getting you where you want to go.  I am both pragmatic and simple in my thinking in a sense that a lot of the challenges facing us are just all about getting back to basics. There is no myth to it; there is not secret formula. As a people, our own attitudinal change has to reverberate through everybody. This whole model of deficit reporting about what is not happening for Maori, what the gaps are and things like that you know and I know isn’t going to work, it is not going to create any new way of thinking or any new opportunity for Maori.


So what do we need to do within all our organisations? We do have to get back to some strength-based recording and build on what we have. Don’t fall into the trap of breaking down for the sake of breaking down and starting again, of reinventing the wheel. We have come too far and struggled too long for that, as our ancestors would have said, to give up some of the things that they had worked long and hard to do. They made the best of the situation that they had at that time and we just have to push on from there.


In terms of added value to the conference on the issues concerning leadership, the biggest question we have as young leaders everywhere is how do we make our contribution or how do we add value to what is happening at a relevant and local level?  I think about that often because of what happens in parliament when I am sitting there thinking ‘how am I going to explain this to my marae committee?’ because that is as basic as it gets for me. The questions that affect them are really practical things and I know that a lot of the things affecting them have to do with issues and decisions that local councils make. So here I am trying to bring some kind of reality to that, but we shouldn’t stop trying. What it means is that we should always push out, all the time, and set some challenges for our own communities.


Leadership 2020. I think it is important we all remember that we are part of the story, we are a part of creating the opportunity, I think we all need to remember that we are here today discussing this issue because of the sheer faith that our ancestors had that we would be stake-holders in the development of this nation, whatever that means. There are experts here among you that know more than I what that could mean at a practical level and it is probably the time now to say that it is long overdue that we as communities of interest throughout Maoridom come together and have a touchstone for Maori economic and social development. It is a timely point I believe because as we met the challenge of the twentieth century where there was a new wave of technology, so too with the advances of the 21st century they are going to impact on us too, I think it is timely for us to say how we want to catch that wave.


Ka hoki atu au ki nga korero o oku nei whaea tupuna, nana i ki; te ohonga ake o taku moemoea, ko te puawiatanga o te whakaaro. Nana ano i whakaarohia me whakatu he wahi mo nga tangata katoa hei hui, hei whakawhiti whakaaro e pana ki enei patai o tatou katoa, i ahu mai i whea? Kei whea tatou inaianei? E ahu ana tatou ki whea?’


No reira, i raro i tona whakaaro, kei a ia etehi o nga whakakitenga mo tatou no te kainga, hei whakapakari ki ona wawata, ka mihi atu ki a ia, ki nga tupuna katoa ki a koutou, no reira, tena koutou katoa.



Peter Douglas              Thank you Nanaia. Nancy Astor was a British politician who was born in the U.S.A And she said once that the penalty of success is to be bored by people who used to snub you. I think that is what a lot of politicians in their success now have to suffer. The next speaker is the Honourable Georgina Te Heuheu who is from Tuwharetoa, Te Arawa and Tuhoe, she is a National Party list member of Parliament and was formerly Minister of Courts and of Women’s Affairs. She was also a member of the Waitangi Tribunal for ten years but still a rangatahi. Kia ora Georgina




Hon. Georgina Te Heuheu, National List M.P.


E nga rangatira, e nga rangatakapu, e nga rangatahi no nga hau e wha, tena koutou, tena tatou katoa.


There was a bus load of English tourists up north, I don’t know why we pick on north, with a Maori driver so he was driving them around and giving a commentary and he said ‘See that hill over there and everybody looks at the hill and he says ‘that is where we killed all these British soldiers’ okay, then they drive on a bit more and he says ‘See that gully down there, that is where we trounced the British’ so after a while after hearing this story two or three more times one of the tourists had the temerity to put his hand up and say ‘Excuse me driver, did the British win any of these skirmishes up here? He replied, ‘Not while I’m driving this bus’


The importance for me of that little story is that we actually have to drive our own bus, Maori do. It is true in terms of what Derek [Fox] said that resources lie with the government and the politicians. That is fine, but accessing resources ought not to become the main activity of our lives. We should remember that those who have gone before us had very scant resources but somehow we are still all here today. I think in terms of our role in parliament I like to think our role, whether in government or not, wherever we sit in the House, but particularly our role in government is to create an environment that will allow communities to flourish. Too often those in government, of whichever political colour, think that they have a bigger role than that, and I think the challenge for leadership, our leadership, is to be clear about where the role of government starts and finishes. I think the bigger role is with ourselves, and that is why this hui is so important in bringing together as it does so- called leaders of this time, of now, and future leaders. Actually I don’t agree with that distinction, the very fact that you all turn up here for these two days says that you are already leaders. I think that we expect you to leave this hui and to go back to your communities wherever you live and work and continue to exercise that leadership. I suppose that when I looked at the programme one of the things I saw was a young Maori Leaders’ Conference and then you have got all these not so young people talking. I hope that has been valuable for you and perhaps the next time we will have all of you talking to us.


Of the three things that I want to say in the form of messages, the first is quality over quantity. I think it is something our leaders, all of us, think about all the time even in terms of when you go and cast your vote. I think all of you need to use good judgement to make sure that the people you are choosing to represent you in parliament, or in fact the people that you are choosing to represent you in anything, are actually quality people. We will have another Maori electoral seat, so we will have seven Maori seats and all of that is fine but that is only fine if people are committed to some integrity, and I am not taking a swipe at anybody either here or anywhere else because I think we all need to think about this all of the time. Are these people that we want to represent us of the highest calibre?  I think that some of you have probably got political ambitions and the things you are doing now in terms of involvement in your communities and quality in the work that you are doing, are all important if you want to be representative of Maori interest at the highest level. But I don’t think we pay enough heed to that matter of quality over quantity. We can have as many kohanga reo as we want throughout the country but let’s ask ourselves ‘are they all providing quality education for our children?’ Now I know the mainstream is questionable in terms of the quality it sets for our children but that is something for us to do as well. But in our own things shouldn’t we be seeking quality rather than quantity? To me, that goes with leadership; it is about demanding integrity in the people who purport to lead us and it is about growing your own integrity so that people have confidence in you when you stand for representative office.


The second message or point I want to make is that we need to make more instead of taking more. I can see how it happens that we have got into this mentality where we need to start to get everything we can out of government but I think as leaders we need to do more to restore, for instance, a work ethic in our people because nobody else will do it, governments can’t do that. There is nobody who will love us more than ourselves or care for us more than ourselves and so this whole thing of our dependency, we know how that has come about and putting out the hand and taking more, that is a fact of life but I think it is incumbent on us all as leaders to think constantly about how we turn that around. How do we help to restore the work ethic in our people? How can we help to restore the culture of enterprise in our people, because after all when British settlements started 160 years ago it was our people who kept the whole economic infrastructure of this country running. Those things are there in our history and we really have to work hard as leaders to restore them, to change the thinking, especially to change the thinking of many of our disadvantaged. Okay, we know how the disadvantaged got there, but even saying, ‘actually our tupuna were enterprising people, they worked or else they didn’t survive’ we have to keep thinking and saying those things so that we turn the whole mind set around, so that we make more instead of take more. I want you as leaders now, young leaders, to think about ways in which we can turn that whole thing on its head because it is dragging parts of our communities down.


The third thing I want you to think about as we exercise leadership in future is, thinking about and acting for all of us As our neighbours, friends and our whanaunga because increasingly like Pakeha there are Pakeha families who now say proudly ‘Georgina we have got mokopuna now’. So they are using the words and they are proud of it, and somehow it makes a big difference to say ‘we have mokopuna’ rather than ‘we have a grandson or granddaughter’. Our young people are interacting more and more with others and I suppose the question that goes around in my head, although we keep talking about us and them, pretty soon it is going to be just talking about all of us, especially, with the demographics going they way they are. So in terms of leadership when do we actually start talking about us, all of us, because the Pakeha are not only our neighbours and our friends but they are also increasingly our partners and relatives and most of us have got a Pakeha antecedent in our family. I think we just have to think more about how we bring that notion to the equation of what we are trying to do both now and into the future. Ngai Tatou 2020 encapsulates that notion of togetherness.


I was at the knowledge wave conference last week and the most potent and poignant statement that was made I think came from a seventeen year old school girl from Gisborne and she said the eyes of those in power need to look into the eyes of those in need, eyes together and then we can make a change and that was three days of pretty high powered speakers from overseas and New Zealand and I think the group that had the plot most firmly in their heads and their hearts was this group of college youngsters from round New Zealand. Now I hope that augers well for this hui. I salute all of those who have been involved in leadership roles over the last twenty, thirty, forty odd years but I also salute those of you who are exercising leadership in your own way now, but endeavouring to take a wider view of it. This is more daunting than being in parliament, I have to say, although I am sure Winston [Peters] may think otherwise. No reira, tena koutou, tena tatou katoa.



Peter Douglas              Last night when I was schooling up for this I read a speech by Winston Churchill when he was made Prime Minister [of Great Britain] in 1940. It was his first speech as a Prime Minister. He is our next speaker’s namesake and he finished the speech by saying  ‘come then let us all go forward with our united strength’. The next speaker is the Right Honourable Winston Peters who is from Ngati Wai. He is the member for Tauranga; he is the leader of the New Zealand First Party. He is a former Minister of Maori Affairs and a former Deputy Prime Minister and former Treasurer. He has been involved with Parliament since 1978. Ladies and Gentlemen, Winston Peters.




The Rt. Hon. Winston Peters M.P., Leader, N.Z. First


I have got to say it was with some trepidation that I accepted this invitation, it being the first one I had ever received to come to any Maori leadership conference in my career. You live and hope in this business, but you have asked for strategies, objectives and goals in respect of leadership and I don’t want to preach to any of you, but to say that there are things in life which no matter whether you are in sport, politics or business or academia they are the same. They are the same as the seasons of life itself. You are going to have winter in your life, whether you like it or not and hopefully you are going to have a long spring and summer. If you aren’t having a decent spring and summer and winter seems to be permanently in your life then have a good hard look at what you didn’t do over the autumn period after you had a long summer. To me that is what has happened to us as a people because we are having one long winter now compared to the giant strides we were making in education, health, housing, welfare and employment in the 50s and 60s. In short we have been set back, a whole lifetime in many parts of this country where the poverty and the sacrifice I used to see when I was a boy way up north, is now being revisited on the Maori people in this country and in significant measure. There is blame to be laid for that, but I don’t want to do that today.


Whether you wish to be in a personal leadership role yourselves or as a people, the seasons are a good analogy and right now we as a people are in the winter of our race and it is sad. There are too many statistics that are irrefutable in this area. It is high time that we looked at ourselves, and I think, across the political spectrum to see why that is so. For you cannot surely mean to say to the Europeans of this country you have been the cause of our ruination and in the next breath trust them to fix it. There is massive contradiction there, which speaks of people not prepared to be equal or to seek to change themselves and their children, or to be free and choose to be equal. They have been trained to make that choice but that choice is something they do not have.


You know if you asked me what is the greatest quality with respect to leadership and people I think it is loyalty - loyalty to the principles and beliefs that one has been taught, a loyalty to the people that have supported one and loyalty to a cause. We cannot deny that amongst us there has been huge dislocation and disloyalty to things that have been bad for the people, whilst they have been advantageous for the handful or the few. There is a group in this country called the Maori roundtable. Let me put it to you this way, when did you see one Maori in Rotorua, Tauranga, Whangarei, Kaitaia or Invercargill, Timaru or Oamuru, that has got a fish. Find me one Maori who has got a fish from the fishing settlement. Well surely in the name of the people in which this plan was made we should be able to report back that the beneficiaries who lodged the application have in fact been satisfied by the outcome, but that has had immaterial cosequences.


In my time in politics I have seen some enormous betrayals of Maoridom, I don’t want to list them now, but the most serious was the headlong experiment we began in 1984 towards the so called ‘free and unfettered market’, and the outcome for Maori was enormously destructive. In forestry alone 80% of our people lost their jobs and the asset wealth of this country which is our heritage as much as anyone else’s was stripped from us and today it is owned by foreigners. How that advances Maoridom I don’t know. At the end of the day of course it is a question of leadership. How you perceive it to be, and what you want to be, whether it is as a mother or father because those roles are as important as any job we might be doing in our roles as politicians.

One last thing I want to say, if you want to advantage yourselves and your people, and all of us, we have got to be prepared to be in a contest and prove that we are as good as anyone else, in the same ways as our Warriors and our Silver Ferns netball team and our All Blacks do every time they hit the paddock. They are out to prove they are as good as anyone in the world and believing that they are as good as anyone. We need to transport that attitude and stance and belief across other areas of our life.


I want to close with a story about a Jewish man, and before you accuse me of being racist, I did Hebrew for my language at university so I’m not. This Jewish man is called Malachi, he went down to the synagogue and he said ‘dear God, dear Jehovah, I had a terrible piece of news this week, my daughter fell ill and will need a private operation in a private hospital and its going to cost me thirty five thousand dollars. Please give me a break and let me win lotto. At eight o’clock that night the marbles came out and he didn’t win so he was down the next Saturday to the synagogue and he said ‘Dear Jehovah, dear God, I asked you to give me a break last week I told you about my daughter’s terrible predicament; she needs and operation, very soon, I can’t get her to a public hospital it has to be private and it will cost me $35,000. Even worse, this week I lost my job so I can’t even save to afford her operation even if she could wait that long. Please give me a break and let me win lotto. That night the marbles came out at eight o’clock and he didn’t win so he was back the third Saturday and he recited to God how he had asked for a break the previous two weeks, his daughter’s predicament, having lost his job and he said ‘During this week the BNZ heard that I had lost my job so they put a mortgagee sale on my house. So dear Jehovah, dear God please give me a break and let me win lotto. Out of the firmament it seemed to be this huge and roaring sound piercing the roof of the temple said ‘Malachi, Malachi give me a break and buy a ticket’ The moral of that story is you’ve got to be in and contesting if you want to advance ourselves as a people.



Peter Douglas              I have been reminded that I have to correct something that I got wrong before. Willie Jackson told me that he is not from Ngati Kahungunu he too is from Ngati Porou. So I should be noted for consistency Derek, Donna, and Willie, I got all three wrong. The next speaker is Jacqui Amohanga, Candidate for the Mana Maori Party. She is from Ngati Maniapoto and she is a lawyer. She will be brief because lunch is soon.




Jacqui Amohanga, Candidate, Mana Maori Party


Kia ora koutou. In actual fact I haven’t prepared any speech because we got told at the last moment that there was a request why isn’t Mana Maori on this panel1, so you have got me going off the cuff, But first and foremost hands up those that have student loans, and hands down those that will pay them off in five years. We have got a lot of tauira in here that are actually in paid employment who hope that their income will actually be enough to pay it off. In reality that is the issue that we are going to have as young Maori leaders. I have a student loan as well; it is going to take more than five years, yet here we are looking for a direction to the year 2020!


Our leadership direction didn’t come at the start of the Treaty of Waitangi, it came way before then. It is a matter of looking at those kaupapa and principles that our tupuna gave us prior to the introduction of the Treaty of Waitangi.


The Mana Maori party has four principles, we don’t rely on political party policies, and we are a young movement. The first is rangatiratanga, that is all about leadership. So if we are looking at a vision for leadership we have to look more than twenty years we need to look at least a hundred years, like those tipuna that signed the Treaty of Waitangi. It is about how we apply our actions on a day-to-day basis every minute of the day, it is not about saying we must go to this hui or we must go to this wananga, it is about what we do in our everyday life. It is about what support we provide to our whanau our hapu. Simply by having an academic career behind us, simply by having a degree is not going to make us young Maori leaders, it is the work and the mahi that we do with our people that makes us leaders. Those academic careers, those degrees are only tools that we can utilise and I think that is one of the key messages that I was asked to give today on behalf of Mana Maori.


The second principle is Paremata Maori. Before the Treaty of Waitangi was signed we had Paremata Maori. Instead of relying on one parliament situated in the middle of the island to make the decisions for ourselves we had paremata Maori in our own areas, more accessible to the whanau and hapu to be able to participate in the decision-making. That is the destiny for our leadership in the future: looking at who has access to be able to participate. Are we making the decisions for ourselves? Those are the key strategies that need to be looked at.


The other principle that Mana Maori stands for is kotahitanga. This is the message that I have been asked to relay. Why do we consistently have different Maori standing in some of these other political parties? And if we do, why can’t we reach a unity in kotahitanga together? In reality the Pakeha political system enables Maori to have a balance of power in parliament, but we don’t utilise that because we don’t strategise to use it. If all Maori voted for a single Maori political party then we would have the balance of power. Those other political parties that are still under the control of Pakeha, (and I know this for a fact because I was heavily involved in the Labour Party), I know for a fact that the Women’s Council and the Affiliates Council in the Labour Party controlled the political party and the Maori caucus rarely got a lot of their resolutions through. That is what really happens in political parties, you have Pakeha control over it. So therefore the decisions and the policies that they are making at Parliament do not reflect the views that we as Maori would like see come through. Earlier today someone raised the issue about our health statistics rising and again I stress it is time for us to make decisions for ourselves. If that means that all the Maoris who are represented across the broad political parties need to come together to do it, then they should, because it is up to the people to ensure that they do it.


Really I am not here to give the answers, Mana Maori is not here to give the answers. We are a grass-roots people and we rely on walking the talk and just doing things on a day-to-day and minute-by-minute basis at the grass roots level. Before I end I am going to reiterate that which I raised earlier. There is going to be a rally opposing GE in this country as soon as the lunch break arrives so, no reira tena koutou katoa



Peter Douglas              Thank you Jacqui I think we have had a very stimulating discussion I was hoping we would be able to go through the speakers and have some questions from the floor until lunch. So who has a brief question?


Question         Part of my job is to lobby. A submission I am writing now for is a smoke free environment. Now I know a couple of you are smokers one of whom I voted for. As our leaders in politics with the power to change policy, how about you fellahs support, as a united front, this bill to promote the safety and health of our tamariki and our wahine Maori, against smoking? Kia ora



Question         Firstly I would like to thank the panel for some really strong messages that have come through today. I would like to comment on some of these messages that I received and basically they are really strong and urgent.  I would like to pick up firstly on the comment from Willie Jackson ‘not to accept’ how ‘mainstream’ defines our leadership. I would actually like to apply and extend that to ‘not to accept’ how mainstream defines us as Maori, as rangatahi, as whanau, hapu and iwi. In saying that I would like to link that to a current issue, which is really impacting upon the future, it is impacting on us. It is going to impact on my daughter and on my future mokopuna if I am able to have future mokopuna. It is going to impact upon my relationship with te taiao.


I would like to acknowledge Nanaia before who raised the issue of genetic engineering or modification. In saying that I would just like to state a couple of facts. Firstly, thank you to everyone from this hui – awesome the 215 signatures that we received on the petition against the findings of the Royal Commission. So, kia ora, homai te pakipaki and also thanks to the panel who have received a copy of the submission, I would also like to thank them and invite everyone from this hui, if we are listening to the message of ‘stand on our own two feet and drive our own bus’ I am asking this caucus, this hui, each individual here, now is the time if you like to join us on the march to parliament and actually deliver the petition that we have. Please do so, we will be meeting out in the lobby at 1.45 pm, so everyone can have a kai first.




1 Following their request that Mana Maori be included in this panel an invitation to participate was issued to Mana Maori on July 7th 2001 i.e.a full calendar month before the event.